(no subject)

[heidi]

This is probably the most difficult post I've made here on LJ in a long time, if ever.

This morning, nostrademons emailed me and praetorianguard regarding some IP matches that he did using information posted on recent Charlotte Lennox posts on JournalFen and comments to those posts.

On JournalFen, el juno posted 68.82.43.3 as the address they have at JournalFen associated with Sporkify - as far as nostrademons, praetorianguard and I can tell, this is the first time that IP address has been publicly shared as a "sockpuppet" IP address. nostrademons ran it through FA's archives, and found that it did match the IP address used by MsScribe on FA in the winter and spring of 2004.

Back in March of 2004, when I was told that many GT'ers thought that Sporkify was an FA Mod, I did ask on the Yahoogroup we have for mod-organizational things whether anyone on said list was Sporkify, and MsScribe lied to me. She posted a reply and said that people thought it was someone on her flist, and then said, "Did they wank something else? *goes to look*"

I believed her, just as I believed all the other FA Mods who posted to that list that week and said they weren't Sporkify - and of course, everyone but MsScribe answered truthfully. But I believed her, and praetorianguard believed her, and so did everyone else. After that, there was one more wank posted by Sporkify on F_W - this one actually involved wanking about FA and some of its mods - and at almost the same time, MsScribe asked if she could resign from FA. I, of course, said yes, and she stopped modding on FA. She was on-staff from early June, 2003 (when I was on leave having my son Jon, then working on Nimbus) until late March, 2004, and in that time-frame was on leave for most of November and December.

Now, I know people are going to say that we should've figured this out before, but we had no information about Sporkify's IP address, and we had no expectation that JF would ever release it, because their ToU's Privacy Policy states, "Journalfen will never release your personal
information, to anyone, except as may be required by law, or in the course of any possible legal proceedings.... Journalfen will never sell, or otherwise make available, information that is not required for the normal display of your journal."

Back in the spring of 2003, praetorianguard and owlman tried to make it clear that FA mods were not acting for FA when they weren't posting on the site, and that only the two of them and I were authorized to act on behalf of FA off-site. Therefore, unless someone complained about MsScribe as an FA moderator or she violated the FA ToU in some way, none of this involved FA. At that time, nobody directly contacted me about it, afaik.

Personally, I am sorry anyone was hurt by anything that has happened in fandom over the last six years that I've been a part of it. I feel extremely duped and upset about this whole situation. That being said, I am all written-out at this point, and so I'm going to parrot Irina. It's so hard to understand how someone who has been so kind to me, and whom I've seen be kind to others, could also do this - could be untruthful directly to me.

I don't think I've ever posted anything publicly or semi-publicly to hurt any of the GT users. I am friends with people who had fics there, and who posted there, and I would never want to hurt them, or anyone else who was an innocent victim of anything or anyone, and I know everyone else on FA's org team feels the same way.

If I have, I apologize for it. All these years, I've thought this was something that had nothing to do with me, or with FictionAlley and I really still feel that 99% of it didn't - we don't have any conclusive information to add to the discussion regarding Fermatojam or Pottersginny, according to the investigating that nostrademons did of our database.

Comments

[doctoraicha.livejournal.com]

Heidi, I want to reply ASAP but I have a meeting and there is no way I can really think about this until after. Tonight or tomorrow. But I didn't want you to think I was trying not to answer. RL is getting in the way of the HP fandom eating my brain any more this evening.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

I understand completely. We can talk tomorrow. I'm also on YM.

[doctoraicha.livejournal.com]

So you would've believed inconclusive IP evidence over a friend who you had no reason to believe was dishonest? That's your call; it wasn't, at the time, mine. And I was completely hoodwinked. I was completely wrong to believe her.

Yes, you were wrong. You chose to believe her over the evidence that was provided to you – in no way was it inconclusive except that you chose to believe the nanny did it. You had two paths; you chose loyalty over suspicion. That is exactly what the GT admins did that you and your friends publicly and privately vilified them for doing. When they chose to believe Jeff over IP evidence, you attacked them as if the Entire GT Site was personally responsible for sending those wanky, freakish emails to Arabella, Cassie et al.

So, here is the problem: you wanted them to be sorry for their culpability in allowing this to continue when they had the evidence right in front of them. This PuppeteerGate is precisely the same situation. You (and your friend Cassie, and a few others) have personal responsibility for letting MsScribe continue to send vicious, wanky, freaky things out into cyberspace. Either you do, or Anne and Paula and some of the other GTers that you blamed for StalkerGate have no responsibility for that. Evidence in both cases was provided by various SQers. I believe they were partly responsible, just as I believe you (and others, but we are talking about you, here) are partly responsible.

I wouldn’t have believed IP evidence whole heartedly over a friend. But I would have checked. Considered the evidence. Investigated more than just asking around and in one place. You asked SQ for evidence in StalkerGate. Why not ask portkey or the Quill or any of the other sites – I’d have done more checking than you admit you did, if only to PROVE she was right. To exonerate her of all charges. For one, I’d have asked to meet the nanny/babysitter/friend she was claiming was the Root of All Evil.

No, I did not. snacky posted on my LJ about the posts on Sapphsmum's LJ just before March 14th began, and when I was next online …

Ok, I was wrong in thinking it was three days. I’m sorry.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

You chose to believe her over the evidence that was provided to you – in no way was it inconclusive except that you chose to believe the nanny did it.
That's not what I was told at the time. That's not what I believed in the spring of 2004 when I talked with people - including Dionne, who lied to me about Sporkify's real identity - about the allegations in Angua's email.

When I got Angua's email, I spoke about it with praetorianguard, ari_o, owlman and others who had been involved and/or paying attention in spring/summer 2003, and they told me that there wasn't anything in Angua's email that hadn't been examined in the nine or so months before. At that time, ari_o said "fermatojam is/was a real guy. I have his name and address and IP tucked away somewhere because I was in charge of Nimbus Security. He was a very real stalker who hacked into Ms.Scribe's computer." So I believed her. I'm sorry I did because as it turns out, she didn't have independent confirmation of things like the contents of the police report, although she'd said she did at the time.


You had two paths; you chose loyalty over suspicion.

In a sense, yes, but not loyalty to D alone. Loyalty to zorac, who said it was inconclusive, and to ari_o and to owlman who had looked through FA's IP records, and to the people who said (seemingly correctly) that Infinitus was real and had confirmed the claims D made regarding Louis. I wasn't just listening to one person.

That is exactly what the GT admins did that you and your friends publicly and privately vilified them for doing. When they chose to believe Jeff over IP evidence, you attacked them as if the Entire GT Site was personally responsible for sending those wanky, freakish emails to Arabella, Cassie et al.

That's not true. We never made an accusation based solely on IP evidence. I sent four or five IP addresses to Arabella back in December of 2001, shared with her some of the emails' contents, and asked if there were any matches in the SQ IP database, and if not, could she ban those IP addresses because then the culprit might complain about being banned. A few hours later, she emailed me back and said that the IP did match to a user, and said user's husband confessed to sending the emails.

The GT admins chose to believe Chryslin over Arabella. That was their decision.

(Continued in a reply to your next reply)

[angua9.livejournal.com]

When I got Angua's email, I spoke about it with praetorianguard, ari_o, owlman and others who had been involved and/or paying attention in spring/summer 2003, and they told me that there wasn't anything in Angua's email that hadn't been examined in the nine or so months before.

What? Are you saying that these people read my email? They saw all my arguments, my evidence, the contradictions I pointed out in Dionne's story? Are you saying that, when Ari_o was making fun of me in public on her LJ, saying that R/Hr shipping had fried my brain, SHE HAD READ MY EMAIL?

Wow.



Obviously, I don't think "don't respond, do nothing, and mock the sender in public" was an appropriate or prudent response to the email I sent you. But others must judge that for themselves. I will post the text of that email on my LJ, so that they can.

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

At that time, ari_o said "fermatojam is/was a real guy. I have his name and address and IP tucked away somewhere because I was in charge of Nimbus Security. He was a very real stalker who hacked into Ms.Scribe's computer." So I believed her. I'm sorry I did because as it turns out, she didn't have independent confirmation of things like the contents of the police report, although she'd said she did at the time.


I do not say this to cause either of you more pain, but my god, Heidi, Katie feels horrible enough about her own (guiltless) part in all of this as it is without you minimalizing your part by blaming it on her.

muffinbutt posting from RP journal, say sorry

[the-woodpecker.livejournal.com]

Heidi, I'm with Aja on this one. This language and behavior is really upsetting to me. Please. I think you have no idea how much you are tearing down the reputation you built with language like this.

Please don't. We're friends. I'm so upset right now I'm about to lose my spicy noodles.

[(Anonymous)]

You just keep trying to push the blame off to other people, don't you? Keep on back pedaling, Heidi, keep on back pedaling.

[imaginarycircus.livejournal.com]

I never ever said I saw a police report. Because I didn't ever see one. Wow, I'm learning who all my frineds are this week. The quotation you have from me is all I ever said.

[(Anonymous)]

You make me sick.

[gamps-garret.livejournal.com]

Heidi,

Without any doubt, you are the most cowardly bitch I have ever met. I am repulsed by the idea that I once trusted you and believed you to be a decent human being. With this comment, with this continued conversation, with everything you have done about the entire situation in the last week, you have demonstrated your selfishness and utter lack of concern for anyone but yourself.

May your self-righteous back-pedaling make you happy now.

Lissa

[unanon.livejournal.com]

Heidi,

I've known for some time that sometimes you'll say/do things that aren't deliberately meant to be hurtful or cruel, they're just astonishingly thoughtless...and I've been okay with that. People aren't perfect.

I'd like to believe that shunting blame on people whose faith you claim to value most likely wasn't your intention in this case, but it certainly was the very real outcome. Katie (among others) does not deserve to be thrown to the wolves for this. Vacation or no, it's only right that you step in and take some personal responsibility.

It's bad enough that we were duped by Dionne, but this is nausea-inducing.

Mood: Disappointed.

[lore]

Heidi...Honestly, you make it very hard for the people who want to be supportive of you. Quit being a lawyer and dissembling and just say what needs to be said. To K now, too.

love, lore

Re: Mood: Disappointed.

[lore]

Let me add that I hadn't seen that you were going to be away. I won't delete my comment because, ugh, but I will say I would have waited to post it if I had seen your away sooner. I hope when you get back, things will be worked out between you and K. I won't even dream of you pleasing everyone - that will never happen.

love, lore

[sugarjet03.livejournal.com]

Heidi,

I haven't always agreed with your actions, but I usually can see where they are coming from. This time, though, you are slandering someone who is just as innocent, if not more so, than you are. You owe Katie an apology. Too many people have already gotten hurt, and you are making things worse by trying to make yourself look better.

[doctoraicha.livejournal.com]

I did get in touch with D and ask her to keep to her pledge, though. I didn't know she was going to post there before she posted there... Please remember that I was four weeks away from delivering at that point. I think it's awful that Christina and family had to read anything that was deliberately cruel, but you're suggesting that I should have been able to stop someone who had lied to me, and who had done things to hurt me? How do you think I could have accomplished that? Even threatening to defriend her if she posted there again would've been utterly useless because she just would've used a journal not associated with her name, and I never would've known.

As for being four weeks away from delivering- that is pretty much beside the point. You were online and posting to LJ repeatedly that week. However, there is a wider problem with your argument.

You contacted Dionne and asked her to stop posting at F_W, but you didn’t appear to make any real effort to make her take back the horrible things she said. You didn’t say “Hey, this is my friend but she is not speaking for me right now, and I do not condone it” – and this means you were culpable: you knew what she was doing, you told her to stop, but you didn’t make her stop or apologize. That is the same as approving what she had done. If you make your kids stop hitting other kids, you still need to make them apologize to those they hurt for already hitting them.

Yes, I am suggesting that you should have been able to make her MsScribe identity stop posting terrible things, and retract what she said, and apologize. If you could not, you should have apologized for that. Why? Well, she claims to have been doing the wanking in defense of you. You are responsible for the entire wank in the first place, because you acted callously. You were posting to your LJ, but you couldn’t take 3 minutes to post a shout-out – which everyone our age knows is a “hey, you guys, if you have a sec take a look at this. She might really need some help.” CharityGate was disgusting, and you were at the heart of it. The first step in a long line of reprehensible wankage.

The other problem is that you are saying that it was no use to make her stop by defriending Dionne-as-MsScribe because she’d just have turned to another sock, because she is lying and hurtful. But you have said you didn’t know she had other socks, and you didn’t know she was a hurtful liar, so there is no way you knew at that time she would use other socks. So you could not have known that defriending would not work. Your argument is circular. Why did you not threaten to defriend, when you didn’t know that it wouldn’t work on this sociopath MsScribe? Did you know MsScribe had the socks and figure it wasn’t worth your time to try to make her stop because she would use the socks? If not, and you didn’t know, and importantly, if you didn’t condone her behavior, why not threaten to defriend? Or, for that matter, why was the only action you took to ‘ask’ her not to post further?

Look, I have a bit of a hot temper, and I can be a Big Ol Bitch, so sometimes I say stuff I shouldn’t say. Zsenya will tell me – HAS told me – to cut it the heck out. Either because she’s right, because I am not making it better – or because it’s her site and therefore her place to make the defenses – or because I am her friend and she asked me to – I STOP.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

So, here is the problem: you wanted them to be sorry for their culpability in allowing this to continue when they had the evidence right in front of them.

This PuppeteerGate is precisely the same situation. You (and your friend Cassie, and a few others) have personal responsibility for letting MsScribe continue to send vicious, wanky, freaky things out into cyberspace. Either you do, or Anne and Paula and some of the other GTers that you blamed for StalkerGate have no responsibility for that.

Puppeteer? What's that supposed to mean? Dionne pulling the strings of sockpuppets? I would make a joke about socks coming full cycle, but I'm too drained to make it actually funny.

And no, once we realised this was likely the work of two people, we never asked anyone else for a "mea culpa" for the emails that pair sent. I don't blame Imogen or anyone else for Chryslin and/or Jeff's lies and impersonations on Michela's Writer's University forum or their phone call and follow-up email to CF, the law firm I left at the end of November.

What I blamed them for was their decision to ban the word Schnoogle from GT's forums, their decsion to ban Cassie from the forums, their decision to say things like "First of all if you're going to discuss this, you should really have all the facts before you make a statement. And just as that may leave a bad taste in your mouth, blackmail and harassment don't taste too good in ours." That's something that Cyg recorded Marian as saying back in June of 2003 on the GT livejournal itself here . But since the community was deleted, that post isn't available anymore, as the only archive.org records of that community were from Oct 05, 2002, Dec 03, 2002 and Apr 07, 2003 (and the April page has a nice comment from amaterasu about something I posted on SQ).

Now, none of this is meant to say that I have no responsibility for not figuring out D was behind Sporkify sooner, and I understand why people think I should have not trusted what I thought was confirmation of D's claims regarding Louis, but you seem to be misinformed about how *I* feel about things. Back in 02, I tried to mend fences with Paula over Paul McCartney. I tried to talk with the site admins in the fall of 02 as well. And each time, I was rebuffed. There's only so many times that someone will speak into the wind before she realises that the wind isn't going to answer back.

I wouldn’t have believed IP evidence whole heartedly over a friend. But I would have checked. Considered the evidence. Investigated more than just asking around and in one place. You asked SQ for evidence in StalkerGate. Why not ask portkey or the Quill or any of the other sites – I’d have done more checking than you admit you did, if only to PROVE she was right. To exonerate her of all charges. For one, I’d have asked to meet the nanny/babysitter/friend she was claiming was the Root of All Evil.
I thought what Angua sent me included all the information from SQ, actually. LJ won't divulge information without a subpoena, as we'd learned during the investigation back in December 01, so I didn't try to run into that brick wall again. Why didn't Angua ask other sites when she was collecting the information back then? I can't get to the Portkey ToU right now, and I've never read it, but I assume it includes the standard language about not handing IP information around, so I probably would've assumed they would hold to that.

[doctoraicha.livejournal.com]

You ought to ask Arabella and Zsenya, …[re Cassie].

I did as you suggested. A couple of emails and IP matches makes Jeff a real freaker, in my opinion, and probably dangerously weird. What he did was make terroristic threats. This does not make him a stalker, any more than MsScribe is a stalker (the only person she seems to have really stalked, IMHO, and STRANGELY ENOUGH, is Cassie, in a kind of Single White Female way). Chryslin and Jeff acted very badly. GT admins closed ranks around their friends – we have since made them apologize for protecting a criminal. Jeff admitted he did it, and Sue left the site over the actions of her husband. When will FA apologize for harboring MsScribe and protecting her in the face of the evidence? OK, she was not a mod the whole time, but Jeff was NEVER a mod. Again, GT acted badly and stupidly. So have FA, the so called inner circle, and your friends. So what we (royal we, me and a lot of people on the bad_penny board, for what it’s worth) really want to see is an unequivocal “I am sorry for my part in this harboring this person. I should have looked closer at the evidence.” Period.

Believe me, I am plenty angry at D right now - it's a metaphorical "want to hit her with a 2x4" sort of thing.
Good, you ought to be. Me, too. She is pretty sick. If I saw her in person I’d probably backhand her and take the consequences. I am fairly certain that the fandom would pay my legal fees.

I don't know what our friendship meant to her
I think I can answer that. Not very damned much, and you can take that to the bank. She treated you and the rest of your friends pretty badly.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

GT admins closed ranks around their friends – we have since made them apologize for protecting a criminal.

Where?

Where did they ever apologize?

When did they ever apologize?

I have never seen an apology to Cassie for their actions after they chose not to believe our evidence, or what Arabella told them.

If you know where it is, please let me know. If it was on the now-defunct GT, then I don't know how anyone expected Cassie to see it.

When will FA apologize for harboring MsScribe and protecting her in the face of the evidence?

I'm going to defer this one to praetorianguard.

But I will point out that FA, as a site, never took any retalliatory action against any GT admin or member as a result of anything D did or did not do. GT, as a site, took retalliatory action against Cassie, and against FictionAlley, and against me because of the bans and the word-blocks and the statements to fandomers that Cassie had lied about what happened in December of 2001 regarding Jeff and/or Chryslin.

FA, as a site, took the word of ari_o regarding the police reports, and I wish we hadn't, but she's done her own share of apologies for the statements she made at the time.


OK, she was not a mod the whole time, but Jeff was NEVER a mod.

No, but Chryslin was an admin.

So have FA, the so called inner circle, and your friends.

You're mischaracterizing the site, the staff, my friends, and this so-called inner circle, which is not something that I ever thought existed in this fandom. And this is what I am going to save to reply to when I get back from my trip.

[magoo42qohg.livejournal.com]

Actually, we banned the word "schnoogle" because we thought it was a stupid word. We banned plenty of other words too. Like smurf. Are you saying that we banned smurfs just to piss off whoever it is that owns them?

If you can ignore the main points and concentrate on the little details, then I will as well.

[doctoraicha.livejournal.com]

Look, you had information that you chose not to believe. You preferred to believe racist, homophobic, prejudiced, and classist vitriol was coming from GT (despite the fact that there was no evidence of this at all) and that GT and Angua forged evidence that suggested MsScribe was stalking herself. Angua deserves a real apology. GT admins – not just users – deserve an apology (although methinks they were no saints during the Cassie Incident, and they acted pretty damned badly toward both FA and SQ when GT imploded). Nevertheless… Don’t say you’re sorry for what Dionne did, and don’t cast yourself only the role of victim.

Most importantly, you owe Christina and her mother apologies for your inaction. As Moeyknight puts it, you set yourself up as “Top BNF” of the fandom. You want everything to come through you for approval (we saw the post). You have to expect that people are going to ask for help. It’s pretty appalling that you didn’t do it immediately, and the fact that you were publicly shamed into doing it doesn’t really fix the fact that you were willing to ignore it at first. http://moeyknight.livejournal.com/111120.html .

Christina, her mother, GT admins, Arabella (since the sociopath attacked Arabella, too, when we were all at B’s dad’s funeral), and the fandom deserve Official Apologies from you, Heidi, for your part in this mess. And you had a part that was not simple victim, make no mistake. I know it’s hard to admit mistakes (Lord knows I make a LOT), and harder to stand up to your friends than your enemies. JKR has that exactly right. You probably really are hurting right now, and I don’t doubt that Dionne used you. That’s hard as hell, and I know it is. You’ve made a step in the right direction in the last couple of days – but take Neil Armstrong’s giant leap and the fandom will respect you in the morning. I know I will.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

I'm skipping to the end of this and I'm going to come back to the middle parts when I get back in town next Monday. I am getting on an airplane in 12 hours and I have to finish packing and I just cannot spend any more time on this; I don't *have* any more time to spend.

You preferred to believe racist, homophobic, prejudiced, and classist vitriol was coming from GT (despite the fact that there was no evidence of this at all)

Where did I say I believed it was coming from GT as a site, like as an official thing? A site is not responsible for everything its users say or do!

and that GT and Angua forged evidence that suggested MsScribe was stalking herself.

*I* never said the evidence was forged. I said in March of 04 that it was inconclusive. And I was reminded when reading an old thread today that there were posts by Clara that she hacked into Fermatojam's account on GT and that explained the identicality. Given ari_o's statements about police reports and addresses, I didn't think it an unreasonable claim. What she was claiming was illegal, but that's something that ISPs should be told about, and I don't think anyone ever did that. Did they? I may've missed something.

Angua deserves a real apology.
I've just emailed her to talk about this so I can understand better why she thought I thought what she told me included forged information.

GT admins – not just users – deserve an apology

I apologized to them already for anything they suffered from anything D did. I have nothing else to apologize to them for.

[doctoraicha.livejournal.com]

“It is my belief that the truth is generally preferable to lies…” - JKR, GF 36.

I am now convinced that FA is only interested in what is legally right. That's fine, except that you, an admin of FA, wished to hold other sites up to standards that yout site does not feel obligated uphold. To wit, you have publicly stated that you are angry at the admins of a website for banning a stupid word and banning someone they didn't like, who they believed - rightly - hated their ship, and for telling people they didn’t have the whole truth and not to talk about the Cassie incident on GT.

Those are pretty weak – nay, petty – reasons to condone the kind of vitriol that was aimed at GT from the FA side of the fandom.

And I am PUBLICLY angry at FA for harboring this MsScribe, a parasite on the fandom and because it has at least one admin (not, I point out, said admin’s spouse) who refuses to acknowledge her complicity through the use of spin, double talk, misleading statements, straw men, backpedaling, and ridiculous excuses. Heidi, what we are asking for is recognition for your part in this and an apology for it, not self victimization. We are not asking you to fall on your own sword, here. Just apologize.

“The truth is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.” (JKR, PS, Ch 17). Heidi, stop spinning the truth. Your overture to Paula – when she read that she literally screamed. I know this, because someone I was in YM with was on the phone with her when you published that statement. This turns out to be a single statement in which you told her you saw Paul McCartney in a movie or show once when you guys were at a conference together.

I’m not going to argue with you point by point any longer, because are using this as a tactic to avoid the primary issues.

Let me paraphrase JKR. My homage, if you will.

It is my belief that we have faced dark and difficult times. Some of you in this fandom have already suffered directly at the hands of MsScribe. ….. Remember all the people she hurt, including her friends. Remember Christina and her family. Remember, if the time should come when you have to make a choice between what is right and what is easy, remember what happens to people who were good, and kind, and brave – though not perfect – just because they strayed across the path of those who aspired to be Big Name Fans and their little circle of “friends.” - Chapter 37, GF.

You are blinded by the love of your “position” in the fandom. … If your determination to shut your eyes will carry you as far as this, Heidi, we have reached a parting of the ways. You must act as you see fit. And I -- I shall act as I see fit. – Chapter 36, GF

This is my last post to you, Heidi. I may continue to post about this on my own Lj, but I’m away on Tuesday for five weeks in the mountains, so I don’t intend to waste my holidays talking to you about the forest when all you can see are the trees.