The most horrific part of the debate last night

[heidi]

And it was a pretty big challenge to choose the most horrific part - but frankly, while there are problems in having teachers who've had no certification process and no training in teaching, especially on an elementary school classroom-teacher level* and there are catastrophic issues with McCain's health care proposals and his complaints about John Lewis just feel weird, none of that demonstrably minimizes the health of girls and women across the country. What's next? Air quotes for "incest" or "rape"?

[Poll #1279744]


* I think there is merit in having middle- and high-school teachers, and in specialty classes, where someone who doesn't have a specific certification but does have a specialty in that area, but given that I've just been through a situation where someone with a teaching degree but no early childhood education was my son's kindergarten teacher (until the principal removed her because she wasn't a good K-level teacher) and was rapidly screwing up his learning experience, I'm not very into it for the K-5 level.

Comments

[likebunnies.livejournal.com]

After going through the fast track teaching courses I went through, I think it would be almost impossible to be in an elementary classroom without any experience in early childhood education. Most of what we learned was focused on that age group because of just how specialized it is in its own right. The program I went through needed even more internship time for that age group. It didn't seem like it would ever be enough!

good point

[lunalovegoddess.livejournal.com]

Exactly. My mom went for her early childhood education degree while I was in high school, so I saw firsthand what her training entailed. Plus, I babysat for my cousins and other children, whose ages ranged from six-month-old twins to ten-year-olds. I thought that I had the basics down, knew first aid and medical terminology, and felt confident in my childcare skills. As the mom of two gifted perfectionists, one of whom has a severe food allergy and fine motor skills issues, I learned pretty quickly that most of our previous interactions with children had not prepared either of us for their specific challenges. We both learned a lot from my daughter.

[stinaleigh.livejournal.com]

http://missysedai.livejournal.com/940056.html

[junesrose.livejournal.com]

Didn't see the debat but I think you summed up it right there for me. Thanks.

[gmth.livejournal.com]

This has apparently been debunked: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Joes_registration.html?showall

[linaerys.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD. "Health"???? Women don't have health problems they have "health" problems. GOD. How is that a position that someone can even hold???? GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

He was speaking specifically of the health of a woman who's seeking an abortion to preserve her health, not women's health in general. He seems to think that the exception mandated in Planned Parenthood v Casey back in 1992 that abortions should be allowed in the second and third trimester "for pregnancies endangering a woman's life or health" "stretches" things so women would lie to claim there's a health issue even if there isn't. Which is pretty libelous to both women, and doctors.

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

McCain made me want to puke.

[ginsu.livejournal.com]

I completely agree about the air-quotes. Astonishing blunder in what should have been a comeback debate for McCain -- the worst blunder in all the debates so far, I think.

I like what DeviousRogue said about this:

• [Obama's] attempts to find common political ground on the subject of how teens can avoid unintended pregnancies were noble.

• I fear McCain, in discussing this same topic, ironically authorized a late-term abortion of his campaign.

[schmoo999.livejournal.com]

I was putting our eldest daughter to bed when the whole air quotes and women's health came up. Matthew was floored by that and said it was a good thing I wasn't in the room. I was pissed enough with the other stuff. (That Joe the Plumber crap over and over again has me just wanting to smack McCain.)

[moony]

That video made me absolutely incensed. I vented in my LJ.

I am so angry.

[graycie23.livejournal.com]

I only saw the last half hour, but the question about whether Obama or McCain would appoint someone to the Supreme Court based on the appointee's views on abortion really bothered me. I mean, what a loaded question!! Of course they would! And we know how the candidates feel about the issue, which means the question was really more along the lines of, "How good are you at skirting the issue and talking like a politician?"

Meh.

Having said that, Obama had a much better response...ahem =)

[blackink.livejournal.com]

I think McCain had a lot of fantastic points that are being completely overlooked due to Obama's "hero" status. It's rather sad how the country is hero-worshiping this guy who has done nothing to deserve it other than give a few pretty speeches about how he's the best person in the country to be president and knows better than everyone else.

That being said and most bias against Obama aside, the way I took the air quotes is to mean that the majority of women do not have abortions because of their health - they do it as a form of birth control, yet it's still referred to as "women's health". It isn't women's health anymore, it's the health of the baby and the total rejection of the child's right to life without any valid and reasonable justification for it other than "I didn't feel like having/can't afford to have a kid right now".

[pinguthegreek.livejournal.com]

Um, that's why it's necessary to have adequate sex education and access to contraception. It doesn't make it OK to restrict abortion just because it doesn't fit personal principles.

So, so do not agree with you on this. I'm a Brit, but I cannot believe McCain would be so very very stupid. And as much as I disapprove of a lot of reasons for abortion, it's just as awful to condemn a woman to a life she doesn't want just because she was more than slightly stupid. Sorry, heidi8 I just had to say my bit.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

That being said and most bias against Obama aside, the way I took the air quotes is to mean that the majority of women do not have abortions because of their health - they do it as a form of birth control, yet it's still referred to as "women's health".

No, it isn't referred to as "women's health", at least it isn't in the courts. The language about abortion being legal throughout a pregnancy if abortion is necessary to protect the woman's life or health comes directly from Planned Parenthood v Casey, which included

a confirmation of the State's power to restrict abortions after viability, if the law contains exceptions for pregnancies endangering a woman's life or health

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992), quoting Roe v Wade

[deirdre-c.livejournal.com]

Have you seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IS0PJdE0Cs

YES.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

I did. Breaks my heart.

I am ashamed....

[huntress69.livejournal.com]

I was so damn busy finalizing a PowerPoint presentation for school that I forgot all about the debate. Yeah, I know, bad me. Do you know where I can view the whole thing? Also I was in 7-11 today, got a cup of coffee with "OBAMA 2008" on it. I didn't really want the coffee at that moment (I had a full mug in my car) but I couldn't resist.

Re: I am ashamed....

[judyserenity.livejournal.com]

You can get all the debates online at http://www.experienceproject.com

Type "debates" in the search box, and it should be the first thing that comes up.

Finding the debates

[judyserenity.livejournal.com]

On second thought, it's easier to just go to
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/debates/ge/index.html

[flourish.livejournal.com]

I had a lot of "OMGWTFBBQ" moments, but another of my big ones was McCain saying he was proud of the people at his rallies. I couldn't believe that he was endorsing the "kill him" shouts. That honestly made me feel sick inside. Normally I do not think of McCain as a bad person, or as a negative role model - at least, I haven't thus far - but that seriously made me think again. How can anyone stand by? Obama denounced Ayers on air; McCain could denounce the right wing racists on air.

[blackink.livejournal.com]

He did denounce them during the debate, and he has also spoken out against them during his rallies.

(Transcript from CBS.com):

MCCAIN: Let me just say categorically I'm proud of the people that come to our rallies. Whenever you get a large rally of 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 people, you're going to have some fringe peoples. You know that. And I've -- and we've always said that that's not appropriate.

But to somehow say that group of young women who said "Military wives for McCain" are somehow saying anything derogatory about you, but anything -- and those veterans that wear those hats that say "World War II, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq," I'm not going to stand for people saying that the people that come to my rallies are anything but the most dedicated, patriotic men and women that are in this nation and they're great citizens.

And I'm not going to stand for somebody saying that because someone yelled something at a rally -- there's a lot of things that have been yelled at your rallies, Senator Obama, that I'm not happy about either.

In fact, some T-shirts that are very...

OBAMA: John, I...

MCCAIN: ... unacceptable. So the point is -- the point is that I have repudiated every time someone's been out of line, whether they've been part of my campaign or not, and I will continue to do that.

But the fact is that we need to absolutely not stand for the kind of things that have been going on. I haven't.

[hedwig-snowy.livejournal.com]

A few examples of McCain's odd behavior at the end of the debate.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/2041/5939/586/633015

[belleweather.livejournal.com]

I just can't believe that he'd say something that insensitive on national TV on Pregnancy and Infant Loss Rememberence day. Yeah, it's not like it's a national holiday or anything... but I've got people all around me in the infertility community grieving for wanted pregnancies they lost or were forced to terminate or lose their lives and he has to run his stupid-ass, insensitive, stupid white male mouth and make air quotes.

Seriously. I have never wanted to deck a politician so much in my entire life. Not even the asshat in Virginia who wanted to make every late period a reportable offense.

[flourish.livejournal.com]

That guy in Virginia was kind of lolarious, I have to say.

(I bet, however, that he did not just do it for the lulz.)

[ness-va.livejournal.com]

So women's health is irrelevant so long as a baby comes out? Nice.

[nekiko27.livejournal.com]

I think there is merit in having middle- and high-school teachers, and in specialty classes, where someone who doesn't have a specific certification but does have a specialty in that area,

The biggest problem that I had with McCain's statement of having returning military personnel enter a classroom without needing to get certified is the way he said it. It sounded to me like he was dismissing the notions of needing teaching certificates at all, and that they are perfectly trained to enter into a classroom and just start teaching.

Also, it is actually common practice for secondary educators to enter the field from another career. My math teacher in high school (I had him for 4 years, from Geometry thru AP Calculus) used to work for NASA before becoming a teacher. Also being a teacher, I knew several who had switched fields. If you are qualified for the academic merits, then you can be hired while you go through the certification process. Many of the teachers that I have mentioned would have about 3 years to pass the certification tests, and they would attend professional development workshops offered by the county. A simple process really.

I suppose my point is this: what makes a serviceman/woman more qualified to teach in a classroom that they don't need to be certified than the retired engineer wanting to teach math?

And this is not meant to disrespect the military in anyway. Just a case of why is A more capable than B.

[ashesofautumn.livejournal.com]

I suppose my point is this: what makes a serviceman/woman more qualified to teach in a classroom that they don't need to be certified than the retired engineer wanting to teach math?

Nothing. Which is why what McCain said is incorrect.

He was referring to a program that already exists, it's called Troops to Teachers (http://www.ed.gov/programs/troops/index.html). From the website:

DANTES assists eligible members of the armed forces to obtain certification or licensing as elementary school teachers, secondary school teachers, or vocational or technical teachers and to become highly qualified teachers. The program also helps these individuals find employment in high-need local education agencies (LEAs) or charter schools.

McCain completely mischaracterized it. Any veterans that want to transition to becoming a teacher must clearly have the necessary qualifications.