(no subject)

[heidi]

I'm never going to manage to get all my thoughts about the last third of DT on paper in a coherent form because every time I try, someone emails me a fic rec (like the one this morning by casirafics) and I get all weepy again and I have to stop and hunt down popcorn and diet coke.
But I've read so many absolutely astute perspectives from so many of you - those who loved all of it, those who loved the story but got twitchy at the Epilogue, those who liked parts but had Issues with others, and even those who are disturbed or upset by aspects of, or the whole of, the book and the series.

I'll just briefly touch on one issue that I have a specific concern with, and then go back into bullet-point mode with Things I Now Believe

So, Remus/Tonks. I want to like it and love it and be happy with them being Happy Together but I can't. Somene said they were represnetative of something alchemical, and that makes me weep - two characters I loved in OotP and before, being used as plot-points and not as characters with essences of their own? Meh.

And yes, I love my Sirius/Remus but a romance for Remus after Sirius is dead doesn't mean he never loved Sirius, so it's not *that*. And it's not the idea of both parents racing into battle that makes me just go "oh please no this is just wrong" - I mean, I understand the theory behind it.

But Tonks doesn't race into battle because she's an auror and that's what she Is Trained To Do - and as a mom who couldn't leave her 3 month old to pick up HBP at midnight 2 years ago, I can't imagine how Tonks left Teddy like that at all.

What bothers me is that she raced *after Remus*. Had she gone into the battle by asking "where do you need me?" or "where can I do most good?" She chased Remus - and he was more important to her than their child, and I just..... I can't imagine that. I'm sure there are mothers who would but..... I don't understand it, and it squicks me badly.

What I Choose to Believe
That Draco marries Eloise Midgen

That Harry spends a lot of time in Snape's memories after the end of the book.

That Harry or Hermione writes a biography of Snape

That sometime in June of 1998, Narcissa and Draco (and maybe Lucius) go to tea with Andromeda and Baby Teddy and everyone talks a lot. And by this time, at least Andromeda knows about Regulus and she tells them and it's Good for Draco to learn about what his brave cousin did to stand up against Voldemort. And yes, he eventually does babysit for Teddy.

That a special dispensation is given to everyone who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts and would have been a 7th year that year, allowing them to take NEWTs in August without attending a full year of school, and Hermione pulls fourteen.

That Kingsley enjoys a long tenure as Minister of Magic and Percy gets his old job back. And gets to keep his accrued vacation time which means he has time off to travel with Oliver to overseas Quidditch matches, la!

That Dolores Umbridge is assigned to the Commission on Toilets. And that she was also impacted by the Horcrux she wore, and would have still been a deranged bitch without it, but might not have been so effective with Crucio.

Neville/Luna. I don't care what you say, JKR! There was no reason to shoot down that ship and it really bothers me that you did, especially as you also said someone would do magic late in life and, er, I missed that.

That having three kids by the time one is 34 does not mean that one does nothing but make babies!

That James Potter II's middle name had better be Sirius, thanks.

That nothing in the books destroys my belief that Lucius Malfoy was a social climber who saw becoming a Death Eater as a way to get in good with his wife's family and relished the power trip but really was completely out of his depth.

That Colin Creevey's mum was a witch who died just after Denis was born and that's why he was still at Hogwarts that year.


Also, two things I may've missed:
Did Crookshanks go to Australia with the Grangers?
Did the Squid do anything in the Battle? I hope so!

Comments

[marag.livejournal.com]

JKR shot down Neville/Luna? Wah! I missed that. How did she do that? 'Cause I also firmly believe in Neville/Luna.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

In an interview about 2 years ago. I'm very meh about her having done that. I mean, it just feels unnecessary.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

But she also did it when she was little, which is what led to her being attacked. Someone needs to ask her. Meep.

[sundancekid.livejournal.com]

I also think James Jr.'s middle name is Sirius.

Why Eloise Midgen? We know he marries a pureblood, since Ron knows his son is a pureblood.

I also think Kingsley becomes Minster of Magic, and that Percy gets his job back.

And that Neville becomes Head of Gryffindor, because, <3.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Why Eloise Midgen?

Because I played Eloise in Nocturne Alley.
I just like her. :D

[mmichelle.livejournal.com]

James' middle name had better be Sirius. Or I will kill someone.

Re: Neville/Luna - one of the things I really dislike about JKR is her inability to accept people interpreting the books differently than she intended; this is also evident with her "delusional" comment about H/Hr people. I mean, I do think that a shitload of people on the H/Hr ship are pretty nuts, but it still wasn't a terribly nice thing to do. But yeah, shooting down Neville/Luna has always irked me, 'cause man, it would be socute.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

But yeah, shooting down Neville/Luna has always irked me, 'cause man, it would be socute.

Exactly. And the thing is, she shot it down before she even finished writing HBP, so the Neville she may've had in mind then might not actually *be* the Neville we have at the end of DH. So for her to shoot it down just seems so pointless and more controlling than she ever needed to be. Meh.

[angelamermaid.livejournal.com]

Kingsley was named temporary Minister of Magic at the end of DH, so I choose to believe he was so outstanding that he got the job permamently.

I think you're right about Lucius and the social climbing. I wouldn't have said that before reading DH.

[ceilidh]

That having three kids by the time one is 34 does not mean that one does nothing but make babies!

GRRRR. That pisses me off to no end.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

I think this book created some mommy-issues in me. Also see: Tonks Running Into Battle After Spouse.

[trinity_clare]

I'm sure Hermione would pull fourteen if she were sitting more than eleven. :D

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Wait, she can't get three extras in Defeating Evil, Horcrux Destruction and Basket Weaving Bag Making?

'Cause she should!

[amaterasu.livejournal.com]

She chased Remus - and he was more important to her than their child, and I just..... I can't imagine that. I'm sure there are mothers who would but..... I don't understand it, and it squicks me badly.

Thank you! What makes it worse (at least in my mind) is that just months before, he was ready to abandon her without even a backward glance. Come to think of it, I never got any love for her on his part. Tonks, where did your spine go?

[shocolate.livejournal.com]

Crookshanks was at the Burrow, wasn't he?

[azriona.livejournal.com]

He was - I started re-reading late last night, and one of the things I looked for was Crookshanks, because I was wondering the same thing. Haven't figured out what happens to him after the Trio leave though, I'm just now at the wedding itself. I imagine he remains at the Burrow for the remainder of the book.

[seaislewitch.livejournal.com]

That Draco marries Eloise Midgen
Ouch! You know it's Pansy.


No, Tonks isn't going to leave a newborn to go into battle. Insane! Honestly, I didn't get that whole Lupin/Tonks scenario. I need to reread it, I suppose.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

She just... I actually do understand why she left a newborn to go into battle - but had she said, "where do you need me" instead of "I couldn't stand not knowing- ... have you seen Remus?" I think I would feel like she was there For The Greater Good and not under some selfish compulsion. And I liked Tonks a *lot* until that point. I just can't understand her attitude -and maybe JKR wanted to say that war and obsessively all-consuming love make people do really diabolically stupid things but enough people seem to think that what Tonks did was fantastic or at least rational, so I worry that maybe JKR was implying that she did The Right Thing instead of something nonsensical.

[bella-felis.livejournal.com]

That nothing in the books destroys my belief that Lucius Malfoy was a social climber who saw becoming a Death Eater as a way to get in good with his wife's family and relished the power trip but really was completely out of his depth.

x2. I've always, always held this, and I think Book 7 only illustrates it further.

[cedarlibrarian.livejournal.com]

She chased Remus - and he was more important to her than their child, and I just..... I can't imagine that. I'm sure there are mothers who would but..... I don't understand it

To make a very long story short, I understand it perfectly. This has nothing to do with my motherhood status, but with my mom. I'll talk to you about it more in chat, and in a locked post. But understand what I think: I did not know until I was well into my twenties that mothers are supposed to put their children first. When I was growing up, my mother made it abundantly clear that my dad came first, much firster than me or either of my sisters. In this same situation, my mom would have left us with our uncle and gone into battle after my dad, no questions asked. So given what I've known and seen all my life, I understood Tonks. It's a post that requires much more space and time than I have in this comment, though.

[nmalfoy.livejournal.com]

Ditto. I never came first in my mother's eyes, and, like Cedar, it wasn't until I was much older and she was dead that I realized mothers were supposed to do that. I know my aunt did, and I can recall sitting there listening to them one night when my mother and I were spending the night, and crying because they were laughing and having fun and I had no idea that such a thing was even possible.

[belleweather.livejournal.com]

I'm glad someone else had major problems with Tonks and Lupin. I know the sense of time in that part of the book is a little wonky, but she must have been what, 6 weeks postpartum? And cavorting around in battle? Um... no. There's seriously something wrong with Tonks, AND with JKR.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Maybe ten weeks? And witches do heal more rapidly than do Muggle mums, but... Yeah, I don't understand the physical attributes of it any more than I do the logic of it.

I am hoping, though, that JKR does not think that Tonks' behaviour was something to praise or emulate - but I can't tell from the text itself. Maybe someone will ask her.

[anemonerose.livejournal.com]

And yes, I love my Sirius/Remus but a romance for Remus after Sirius is dead doesn't mean he never loved Sirius, so it's not *that*.

Thank you. That is also my opinion, summed up in one sentence.

The entire Remus/Tonks relationship just really rubbed me the wrong way. He never once showed that he even wanted to be with her until the baby was born. She spent the majority of the last two books running after him and making him come back to her. I was flabbergasted that she showed up at Hogwarts (although, like you said, if she'd wanted to fight and was asking where she should go/what she should do I would have accepted it much more easily) and the first thing out of her mouth is something along the lines of "where is Remus?" Hello? He's out there fighting and doing his job. Clearly he left her behind (again) and she once again had to find him. It got tiring very quickly and I just really hated what JKR did with two characters that were so promising until HBP.

[ballyharnon.livejournal.com]

Good point. Damn.

[earth-magic.livejournal.com]

I'm convinced Harry and Ginny only had sex three times.

Or that he had sex with someone else and that she's just the nanny looking after the kids.

I do love the idea of the Malfoys visiting Andromeda.

[sinisteral.livejournal.com]

That having three kids by the time one is 34 does not mean that one does nothing but make babies!

That's my mother. She had three kids by the time she was 27. And she told me all her regrets of not enjoying a single life first. I didn't think Harry was that kind of person though.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Well, I had three at thirty four, which is why I popped that age into there ;) and I guess I feel that 34 is old enough that you've had a chance to enjoy child-free fun before Babies Ahoy! and still young enough that you're not Old by the time the kids are grown up.

But it's possible to be 34, have three kids, and have a bit of career and hobbies and a life with your spouse - it's not a 100% mandate to be fully baby-centric.

[blackink.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be completely honest here, because it bothers me so much to see the way so many people are reacting to the way JKR handled Remus/Tonks in DH -

I was thrilled to see that scene in Grimmauld Place, where the thought of hurting Tonks and their child was so upsetting, so terrifying for him that he lost control in a way that we have NEVER seen him lose control before. I've long accepted that Remus isn't a public-display-of-affection character. He doesn't NEED to kiss her publicly, or run his fingers through her hair, or tell her that he loves her every two seconds (which is about as long as we seen Remus and Tonks together in DH, through Harry's eyes) in order to truly love her and be the best husband he can be. It would really be against his character, who's held everything inside for his entire life, to let that sort of emotion out.

No, how we know that he truly loves her more than life itself is that fight with Harry. He isn't spineless there; he's very much the opposite, really. He's not running away from a wife and a child he doesn't want; he's abandoning the only chance he has at happiness, the only person who has ever and will ever love him like that, unconditionally, without prejudice (as we see in the way that James, Sirius, and Lily loved him, and then decided he was the traitor because he was a werewolf), a woman who loved him so much that she has no thought of her own safety at the mere potential of Remus being in trouble--he left that in order to keep them safe. In order to make sure they remain alive and together, without him doing them any harm, either through his status as a werewolf or otherwise. It wasn't cowardly or spineless; it sure as hell was his martyr complex shining through bright and cold, but it wasn't spineless. It was probably the hardest thing he'd ever had to do, as is evident from his MAJOR reaction and losing control. It took a lot of courage to even think about walking away from what he must've seen as his only chance at happiness. It took even more for him to stay.

He looks moderately unhappy at Harry's birthday party, when they've obviously just found out that she's pregnant, since Tonks looks "radiant". But he's with her. He didn't run when he found out, but he was scared. I would be, too, if I were them, bringing a child into that sort of world. He was prepared to die for the cause, and he must've known Tonks was, too. That had to be absolutely terrifying for him just to begin with, but then, at the wedding, when they found out the Ministry had been taken?

I can understand his fear completely. It wasn't because he didn't love Tonks, or he was just with her because he was lonely or thought she was his only chance. He wouldn't have been that terrified if he didn't love her. Instead, like I said before, the way he let his fear overpower him, the way he lost control like that to show Harry that bit of wolf inside of him--that is all the evidence JKR needed to show us to let us know that yes, Remus loved her more than he could possibly put into words in front of Harry, more than an affectionate touch on the cheek could ever convey.

He loved her just as strongly as she loved him, and to him, love was sacred, something to be cherished and kept close to his heart. He had so little of it throughout so much of his life that of course, when he finally had it, he had no idea what to do with it, just as it took him ages to figure out what to do with the friendship James, Sirius, and Peter gave him. It wasn't something to boast about, or something to show off. Tonks, who was surrounded by love throughout her entire life, was eager to share it; not that she appreciated or cherished Remus any less, but it was something she was accustomed to, being loved. And it made her happy, and she's the sort of character who wanted to make others happy, and it's easy to see why she was the one to share their good news with Harry.

[blackink.livejournal.com]

Remus, on the other hand, like I said, who had known love so rarely and who thought that part of him was so unlovable that no one could possibly love him the way Tonks did, would have never 'shared' this love with anyone else, hence why we never really see any PDAs from him. Not because he was selfish, but because perhaps he thought it simply wasn't something to be shared. That maybe if they told too many people, if it became public knowledge that everyone knew how much he was loved, it would diminish what they had. It was something private for him -- he was, after all, a very private character. And it was a love that was between two people, intense and so real that the thought that he would hurt that woman he loved caused the only time we ever, in five books, see him lose control.

Same applies to the way he reacted to his son being born. Of course he was going to share the good news and share this love; the baby had his own love to give, and by sharing the news, Remus allowed others to love his child. But to him, that love between himself and Tonks, which had created their son and carried them through Remus' fears together, still wasn't something to be shared. That moment they must've had, meeting their child for the first time together--which of course you've experienced multiple times, so you know what I'm talking about--that was far, far too private to ever talk about.

Plus, I get the feeling that Remus is just a tad bit embarrassed about sex, hence why he was so bashful when Tonks brought up the fact that they were married. There is a very good chance that before this, he was a virgin, especially if he was so afraid of passing on lycanthropy or getting to close to people. Obviously no woman ever cared about him enough to stick by him the way Tonks did, even throughout his potential suicide mission in HBP (which, by the way, I believe is the reason she was so upset and miserable -- it's her turn to be afraid there, terrified by the possibility of Remus dying. I don't think it was merely her being upset that he spurned her advances, if that was it at all. I think that scene, with her looking for Dumbledore after hearing someone from the Order had been hurt/captured, is very, very telling in that aspect). But regardless--there's a good chance he was a virgin, which would only add to the embarrassment of admitting through the mere condition of being married that he was getting shagged on a very regular basis. And if he wasn't a virgin, the same still applies: I highly doubt he was Mr "Go Get 'Em, Tiger!", and his sexual experience was undoubtedly limited, and again, by the mere condition of being married, he was again showing the world that yes, he was intimate with someone in a way he undoubtedly feels should only happen between two people who love each other in a way he never, ever expected to be loved.

Crookshaks says:

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Re: Crookshaks says:

[shezan.livejournal.com]

"Crookshanks", even.

[sisterpandora.livejournal.com]

you also said someone would do magic late in life and, er, I missed that.

Yes! OMG! That has bothered me all day! I was really hoping it would Petunia. Ever since we heard tell of someone doing some magic, I've been convinced it would be her and... Nothing.

[leelastarsky.livejournal.com]

That Draco marries Eloise Midgen
LOL!! :~D

What bothers me is that she raced *after Remus*. Had she gone into the battle by asking "where do you need me?" or "where can I do most good?" She chased Remus - and he was more important to her than their child, and I just..... I can't imagine that. I'm sure there are mothers who would but..... I don't understand it, and it squicks me badly.

WORD.

The other resolution I only just realised we never got was the Arthur/Lucius plot. I'll admit I always expected we'd find out that Lucius had Imperio'd Arthur during Voldie's first go round, which was why Arthur hated him so much. And why PolyjuiceMoody comments to Ron during their first class on unforgivables 'Yes, your father would know about that one.'
They had a full-on punch-on in book 2! Two otherwise respectable men do not do that without a history. And I have always wanted to know why! ;~P

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Also, as I've been writing about this, I see more and more parallels between Tonks and Merope - I know people talked about it in Book Six, but even here, it's more pronounced - she's willing to die rather than be separated from the man she loves, despite the fact that in doing so, she is de facto abandoning a helpless newborn.

Bleh.

[brandifer.livejournal.com]

I could not possibly agree more with xplmex.

Another angle to think about:

Tonks doesn't race into battle because she's an auror and that's what she Is Trained To Do

Are you sure?

Tonks is a skilled witch in her worn right from a family who lost members to Voldemort the first time around. She's a trained Auror, and IMHO she seems to have achieved that at a mighty tender age for the skill set required. Her inside knowlege of what's happening means she KNOWS what kind of world baby Teddy's going to grow up in if the good side doesn't pony up everything (and everyone) they've got and defeat the threat.

I believe she didn't arrive on site with Remus because either he initially convinced her to stay with Teddy or they were away from Andromeda when it all started to go down and she detoured to get Teddy there.

Tonks wasn't going off to a party or taking a nice baby break in the country. She left her baby in all the safety she could muster and went to war because she knew the Fight For It All was going down and if they didn't stop him, Voldemort would destroy them all. The risk of him being raised orphan by Andromeda was less threatening than the surety of having him hunted down and murdered.

My two cents... :)

[ashavah]

Thank you! That's exactly what I think! She went to fight to make the world a safe place for her son to grow up.

[brandifer.livejournal.com]

Will I ever learn to proof my comments before I post them?!? Sorry for all the bold in that last, I wasn't screaming, honest. :)

[sff-corgi.livejournal.com]

Hey, at least it wasn't in caps. ^_^

[mad-madrasi.livejournal.com]

I love your predictions! That's my epilogue for me. :D

[harlequincy.livejournal.com]

I love this post. Wow. It just made me feel so much better about everything ending with such finality. It served as a nice reminder that there are still possibilities.

I really do hope James's middle name is Sirius. If it isn't, I think I'll actually be offended on Sirius's behalf.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[sff-corgi.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on James's middle name. She's short-shrifted Sirius enough, thankyouverymuch, she needs to at least give him THAT much.

I can see your objection to no Neville/Luna, but really, if she and Dean stuck, an artist is much more suitable for Luna's flights of fancy, no?

I'm assuming Hermione got to bring her parents home, or at least restore their memories. They probably rather liked Australia....

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

I can see your objection to no Neville/Luna, but really, if she and Dean stuck, an artist is much more suitable for Luna's flights of fancy, no?

But why should it matter? I guess I don't understand why she cares so much about it that she has to seal off a potentially creative topic to the book's fans...