While everyone is talking about body issues as per JKR's rant today...

[heidi]

I've been pondering a line in an article in Slate entitled "Do It, Already!", which focuses on various omg-the-finally-hooked-up episodes of serieses like X-Files, Moonlighting, Cheers and West Wing, and if you read the article be prepared for some spoilers-about-last-week's-episode if you haven't seen it yet. Anyhow, the line is:

The marriage plot remains a tried-and-true narrative thread, and in Victorian novels it never bothers me when a seemingly unworkable relationship is miraculously, happily tied up in the final pages...

And I realised that that is exactly how I feel right now about both R/Hr and H/G (although I don't, actually, about R/T). So what if they're seemingly unworkable relationships in a lot of real-world ways? (Harry's survivor-of-child-abuse-and-the-lack-of-impact-it's-seemingly-had-on-him is one example of the unworkable-in-the-real-world backstory.) So what if Ginny spent fiveish years pining over Harry in varying degrees? Why should that be a hinderance if Donna pining, in varying degrees, for Josh, strikes me as somewhat endearing? Is it just the fact that one is a tv series that doesn't delve quite as deeply into the perspective of one character as the HP series has re Harry? Is it because in WW the crushing-party is an adult and not a ten year old who hold her mum's hand at the train station?
So a seemingly unworkable relationship is miraculously, happily tied up in the final pages? Like Catherine and Solarin, when she clearly would've been better off with Nim, who'd been, yes, pining after her for a long time, obviously, only to see her go off with his long-lost brother, and clearly he's set up to now find newly-slim Lily intriguing? It doesn't mean I can't still enjoy the series as a whole, the plot and hte story and the characters as a whole, just because I'm not enthralled by the seemingly unworkable relationship being tied up a nice, neat bow in the final pages. It's a tried-and-true narrative thread... maybe that's why I see it as seemingly unworkable?


Now, briefly, on the rant: I do agree with a lot of what JKR said on the whole, but it rankles me even more now re her characterization of Tonks in book 6, where she lost her look-changing-ability and thus some of her magic because of an unrequited crush. If she's trying to say that Remus didn't love her for her cute pink hair, then that's a groovy sentiment, but in Tonks' case, her looks aren't just cuteness or whatever, they're a part of her magic - it would be like Harry losing the ability to speak Parseltongue for non-Voldemortian reasons. I guess it's that I think she's right about overemphasis on looks in society, and yes, I too am now approaching this thought-process as the Mom of a Daughter - and it can change the way that you look at some things - but even someone with Looks (see: Narcissa) can have a depth that isn't noticable on first glance (see: Quidditch World Cup scene) but is apparent when her character is fleshed out more. And I wonder, again, if JKR has given half the amount of thought to a character like Pansy as some of us in fandom have - does Pansy hang out with Millicent, who is described as not exactly a pixie, and if she does, then what does that say about whether Pansy is completely shallow and looks-obsessed herself?

Comments

[laughingirl.livejournal.com]

It's funny you mention The Eight... I meant to wish you a happy 4th day of the 4th month yesterday. :)

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

The worst part is, I didn't even remember it until about 2 a.m. today. Last year it was a v v important day because I tried to get myself to go into labor, but this year...

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

I don't know how much of an unrequited crush it was, to be honest: I would assume that someone as intelligent as Tonks wouldn't let herself be ruined by something that wasn't requited. I would say that by the end of it that it was pretty well requited.

I think the Slytherins, like the Griffyndors, hang around like-minded people more than based on their looks - which is nice, I suppose.

[narcissam.livejournal.com]

I liked your story where Tonks was pregnant, and Andromeda caused her to miscarry. Creepy, but it *worked* and Andromeda was every bit a black. I'm just saying this because this discussion reminds me of it and I never left a review.

But yeah, I think it was requited.

[gunderpants.livejournal.com]

*blushes* Why, thankin' you, ma'am.

[mmoneurere.livejournal.com]

I would assume that someone as intelligent as Tonks wouldn't let herself be ruined by something that wasn't requited.

Well, while Tonks does seem to be quite intelligent, I don't know that we're given enough exposure to her personality to see how she deals with emotional issues. It's quite believable for otherwise intelligent people to go absolutely to pieces over something even so minor as an unrequited (adult) crush.

And no, I'm not an example or anything...

[mitzi007.livejournal.com]

I don't know how much of an unrequited crush it was, to be honest: I would assume that someone as intelligent as Tonks wouldn't let herself be ruined by something that wasn't requited.

Unless somebody is dosing her amortentia, which imho would explain quite a lot.

[meggitymeg.livejournal.com]

So what if Ginny spent fiveish years pining over Harry in varying degrees? Why should that be a hinderance if Donna pining, in varying degrees, for Josh, strikes me as somewhat endearing?

You know, I agree with you on the H/G - in large part because it has always been, and really still is, very one-sided. The difference, in my mind, between H/G and J/D is that in the latter pairing, *both* sides were pining (IMO). Just in different ways. You cannot tell me that Josh's attempts at a "relationship" with Lockjaw!Amy (not one, but TWO bouts, even!) were not less about what he could get (Amy) and more about distracting himself from what he could not have (Donna). And that's the difference between H/G and J/D, in this case. Sure, Harry spends a chunk of HBP battling the monster in his chest when he looks at Ginny with another boy. Sure, he saved her life in the Chamber of Secrets. But it's just not the same as Josh jumping on a plane to Germany, you know? ;) Maybe it's partly about age, but there are other factors at play here, I think.

[ginsu.livejournal.com]

You cannot tell me that Josh's attempts at a "relationship" with Lockjaw!Amy (not one, but TWO bouts, even!) were not less about what he could get (Amy) and more about distracting himself from what he could not have (Donna).

Well... sure I can. =) I believed in Josh's legit interest in Amy. I wanted a slice of Amy myself. Gorgeous, smart, wears a lot of black, articulate to beat the band, and the Amy Gardner smile is not to be beat. Her primary flaw as I saw her was her Ford Prefect-like inability to blink.

As for the can't-have Donna concept -- why couldn't he have her?

I think her interest was so clear to him, and so strong, that Josh could at any time have said "Look, baby... you strike me as definite soulmate stuff... so how's about quitting and going to work for that startup that wants to cover the DC beat online... so we can date?"

She'd have done it in a heartbeat.

The thing is, I think Josh has always been drawn to women he perceives as peers, and he really didn't see Donna that way until this last season or two. She bailed on him, got another job, doubled her IQ and confidence (check out that key-passing move -- totally unimaginable to first-season Donna), and managed all that without losing a speck of her sex appeal.

So I see their relationship as a reflection of her personal growth, which probably exceeds the personal growth of any other character on the show with the possible exception of Zoe.

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

The thing is, I think Josh has always been drawn to women he perceives as peers,

This gets back to my girls shouldn't marry boys who are not as smart as they are, or, at least, as ambitious as they are rant, doesn't it?

[ginsu.livejournal.com]

Sure -- it's just the flip of the same coin. That is, boys shouldn't marry girls just because the girls get them hot, but rather because they sincerely believe the girls will make excellent partners, for them, for life.

I think New!Donna is a hell of a lot closer to that, for Josh, than Old!Donna.

[darth-kittius.livejournal.com]

And I realized that that is exactly how I feel right now about both R/Hr and H/G (although I don't, actually, about R/T). So what if they're seemingly unworkable relationships in a lot of real-world ways?

Exactly. Suddenly in Book 6 Harry magically seems to develop feelings for Ginny, but not really... IMHO it's completely being shoved down our throats. I won't even BEGIN to deal with my thoughts on R/Hr because then I just get either mad or depressed. They SO do not need to be together.

But really, my problem with the "official" pairings is - how many people find their true love at that age? Yes, there's a few... but, really, would ALL of our heroes? Simultaneously? Please.... They'd probably struggle with it even MORE because they're now the heroes of the wizarding world!

[megaloo13.livejournal.com]

Oh, completely agree with you on that. To quote one of my former high school teachers, "I don't want to diminish how important the relationships [you have while in high school] are, but I can count on one finger the number of couples I went to school with that ended in marriage."

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Well, to be fair, one of my friends married her high school sweetheart - they went to separate colleges, though, so they weren't together 24/7 from age 15 on - and my best friend married the guy she started dating when she was 18. So it does happen, but it's definitely not a universal thing, because people grow and change from 11 to, say, 24.

[a-wormwood.livejournal.com]

Heh, kimmparker linked me here, and the sentiment:

And I wonder, again, if JKR has given half the amount of thought to a character like Pansy as some of us in fandom have - does Pansy hang out with Millicent, who is described as not exactly a pixie, and if she does, then what does that say about whether Pansy is completely shallow and looks-obsessed herself?

Is something I agree with and have been fretting about all day. I've spent ages discussing Pansy as a minor character, but also as one connected to a major character (Draco) and found her NOT to be like Hermione's presentation. i.e. worth enough of something to gain the attention of Draco Malfoy. I'm not one for distorting canon, so Jo's words were actually quite shattering.

Anyway, I'll toddle off now and leave you in peace. :)

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

I'm not one for distorting canon, so Jo's words were actually quite shattering.
Exactly. And if you take it to a different level, Pansy is willing to sit with Crabbe and Goyle, who are not described handsomely (but oops! the boys cast have grown into cuteness!). And I guess the presumption that Draco Is Cute is now given validity by JKR's line because Pansy wouldn't want to stroke the hair of someone Unpretty?

[a-wormwood.livejournal.com]

Yes! Pansy does not sit with the 'cool kids'. I'm sure that people like Blaise or Daphne Greengrass are much nicer on the eye than Crabbe or Goyle, and socially better, too, because their fathers (like Draco's) have not been declared Death Eaters. I've spent a lot of online time exploring/role-playing/discussing Pansy, and the conclusions I've come to are NOT like this. 'Won-Won!'-lover, Lavender, may be vapid and aesthetic, but not our Pansy!

[mogliecat.livejournal.com]

I find it amusing that JKR rants about weight issues when she uses weight to make fun of some of her characters.

As for the Ginny thing, I wonder if JKR hoisted that upon readers because of some issues she has with her own past and not getting her crush.