everything but the girl

Mayor Nagin seems to be one of the very very few government officials that cares enough about the situation to try anything to help out the victims in New Orleans. Thank god for him, really.

Isn't Bush just lucky that the front page of CNN has a picture of him hugging a lady in Alabama or Mississippi right next to the military convoys driving into New Orleans? What a lucky PR coincidence. *eyeroll*

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krionishock.livejournal.com

Did any of you here stop to wonder why all those people were still in New Orleans? A lot of them don't own cars - most would probably have left if they were offerred a bus ride out of the city. It's great that Mayor Nagin is angry that the people he abaondoneed in the city aren't getting help from someone else. What has HE been doing?

Under-reported AP news from Sunday: President Bush had to call the governor of LA and ask her and the mayor to order a mandatory evacuation - they don't seem to have decided that themselves. ( http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1761096,00.html ) The mayor may not be that bad, but from what I've seen, the Governor Blanco has been useless. Also, I don't remember Rudy Giuliani begging for help on 9/11 - he took charge himself.

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From what I understand, they didn't have the buses to get the people out. He didn't abandon them, either. He's been right there with them the entire time. Lousiana is a very poor state, and so the lack of things like buses contributed to the problem, which is why so many people had to stay.

Also, Nagin is begging for help because he's done all he could do. The police force is overwhelmed, and he's basically on an island. The problem is far too much for the resources he has to work with.

From: (Anonymous)

School busses...200+...goto:

http://junkyardblog.net/

Scroll down to Sept 2nds post

This thing broke down >locally< -- even before the storm!!

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I just responded over there with this:

I agree with you that they could have gotten probably ten thousand people out on the city busses, had they had drivers. However, I have to take strong exception to your "it takes five hours" argument.

My brother in law, who is in the navy, was told to leave New Orleans for Houston by Sunday morning. He left at around four o'clock in the morning, and by ten he was only halfway to Houston, so he stopped at a motel along the way, and ended up never making it to Houston, as he was told to go to Ft Worth instead. The traffic along the highways was moving so slowly at that point that there is no way that more than one trip could have been made. That trip should have been made, yes, but there is no way that 100,000 people could have been evacuated, even if they'd started on Friday afternoon once they knew that it was heading in that direction (rather than it heading actually towards Houston).

Now, what say you?

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Plus, it'd probably be impossible to actually get every last person out of the whole city. And even the people that decided to hunker down and weather it out (while I don't think that's a very smart move if you are able to get out of the city and have somewhere you could stay) require aid.

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selinakyle47.livejournal.com

Late to the party, but let me just add that even if the mayor had gotten everyone out of busses, his authority only goes so far as the city limits of New Orleans. He would have to find a way to provide shelter for these people, something that FEMA should be able to do. So yes, the mayor is not completely blameless, but the federal government should've been ready to step in once the situation got really bad.

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I didn't realize that. Thanks for setting me straight.

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Nancy - read my reply on this issue? It's not that cut & dried if you're talking total evac.

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I just now read it. You're right and you have an insider's perspective, so to speak. It isn't cut and dried. Because sure, they could have put people on busses but then how long would it have taken them to get out of the city? I saw the pictures of the highways.

Lots of people seem to be blaming Nagin, and I just don't understand that. He's done an incredible job, and beyond anything that he'd likely ever expected to do, and if he wants to run for Prez, he's got my vote and all the beer I can afford.

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Lots of people seem to be blaming Nagin, and I just don't understand that.

Even if he did make mistakes before the storm hit, he's the only visible one that was going out & demanding aid and help come for the people left behind. The president as we all know isn't exactly known for admitting or rectifying his mistakes.

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what the bleep is wrong with you people? What the hell do you think you have LEGS AND FEET FOR? You think it's a big deal to walk 10 or 20 miles? No, it is not. Anyone WHO CAN WALK can do it, one foot in front of the other. I'm 58 and I know I can walk ten miles, I do it all the time. 'poor' people can do it too, unless their leg muscles are atrophied from sitting on their lard-ass butts waiting for their monthly welfare checks to arrive so they can buy colt 45s. They don't rate my sympathy and they won't get any more of my money than they steal now from my TAXES.

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Oh, you can't be for real.
1. Do you understand how large hurricanes are?
2. Do you enjoy being a disgusting bigoted and insane shrew?

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I don't know who you are, but someday you'll find yourself in a helpless situation and begging for help from someone else. You think you won't but you will. You might lose your job, or your house, or your car.

How, exactly, is one to walk in a hurricane? And where exactly were they supposed to walk *to*? They can't get out of the city.

I hope you're neutered, because the world can be sucky enough without people like you adding to the deterioration of the gene pool. You have my pity.

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10 or 20 miles? Are you insane?

Mobile, Alabama was hit very badly as was New Orleans (as you well know). It's 150 miles from NOLA to Mobile.

The size of the destruction was 155,000 square miles, so reports the White House. IIRC, that's around the size of the United Kingdom.

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Under-reported news from the weekend: the governor's letter to the President asking him to declare a state of emergency. Bush called a little before 9:30 AM on Sunday to recommend the mandatory evacuation and hte mayor had already stated that he would follow standard procedures and not order evacuations until 30 hours before the expected landfall.

Personally, given the news reports, I won't believe that Bush did anything unexpected or particularly helpful until I hear a recording of his conversation with Blanco.

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...

So let's say that there was a failure on a local government level.
There was also one on a federal level.

The only difference is, Nagin pretty much immediately tried to rectify the situation by trying to get aid of water and food (etc.) while the federal government DID NOT. Bush is known for not being accountable for his mistakes and he takes 4 days to finally get his feet on the ground in other areas that were destroyed.

And quite frankly, the situations in NOLA and New York City were totally different. I think it's disingenuous to say that they are similar.

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krionishock.livejournal.com

Actually, I agree with what you're saying - I think all levels of government were poorly run. My comment was more along the lines of "The mayor shouldn't be one to criticize." I think the governor of LA has been pathetic - she is supposed to command the National Guard in her state. She seemed to not have any ability to actually make decisions and get things done. Granted, it takes a couple days to mobilize the NG - most of them need to be activated from their "regular lives."

I think that this hurricane shows how unprepared the US is for major disasters - what if there is some massive terrorist attack? That will be even more unexpected. I think it also shows how dangerous it is to depend on large bureaucracies to save us. I wonder if the Libertarians will get a swell of members in the coming years?

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I don't think Nagin shouldn't have been one to criticize. Yeah, although the evacs aren't as uncomplicated as a lot of people are making it seem, he did make mistakes. I highly doubt there's someone who wouldn't have made at least one or two mistakes (despite the high costs).

The difference is that Nagin was willing to pick up after the hurricane hit and see that there were thousands and thousands of people that need help and that weren't / aren't getting it. And not many people in high up places were saying anything about the lack of disaster relief. And he stepped up and told people to get up off their asses and all that - so yeah, I commend him for that so far above Bush's "oh yeah, maybe people there do need water. whoops. i'll fly in a plane over the destruction now". Nagin's mistakes don't even approach the incompetence of the federal government & its agencies.

The point of the National Guard is that they take less than a few days to get out of their regular lives. The civilian jobs they hold are required to let them leave and accept them back when they finish with their Guard duties. It's supposed to take a very short amount of time for them to get boots on the ground, and certainly not 4 days.

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krionishock.livejournal.com

Maybe you don't remember this - but on Monday most people were saying "Whew. Missed NO. Thank God." Tuesday we started to realize how bad things were after the levees broke. Some National Guard groups started moving in on Weds, more on Thursday, and large groups on Friday. So, that is 3 days time, max, with some making it on the scene earlier. Also, it's not magic - you have to get people to a place that has seriously damaged infrastructure. It's easier to drive into an empty desert than a place with large destroyed structures/obstacles.

Even the federal government isn't omniscient and omnipotent - they didn't do a good job - no one did. But the thing we need to do for the future is be prepared on who will coordinate recovery, how to communicate between local/state/federal when all infrastructure is gone, and more. Some of the biggest problems were lack of communication and coordination of the people who were on the scene immediately. The NO police were on their own, it seems, with a seriously compromised command structure and communications.

We (everyone) need to get our act together! I plan to put together a "emergency plan" that covers what to take if we have to evacuate, where it is, where to go, how to reach family/friends, etc. If some terrorists manage a large-scale attack we need to do a better job recovering/rescuing people.

The focus now is helping people, but there needs to be a serious look at what this country needs to do to handle things better.

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