A pensieve musing

[heidi]

Is it possible that when you take a memory out and put it in a pensieve, then watch the memory, you're making the equivilent of a second generation videotape with that memory? Is that how Slughorn "pastede on" his edits to his memory of the talk with Tom?

It would make sense - otherwise, the whole idea of removing memories in a way that makes them no longer a part of your consciousness is a little troublesome.

(Yes, btw, I know I owe replies - when I'm next on my desktop. And tabi, call me?)

Comments

[lump-of-clay.livejournal.com]

I wonder if that means you could make a Ring/Harry Potter cross over with memories?

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I don't think the memories are completely removed from the consciousness, that's what Obliviate is for. It would be dangerous walking around without certain memories that you've put into a jar. So I'm pretty sure that your theory about making a videotaped copy to put in the Pensieve is the correct one.

[sevensickles.livejournal.com]

Obliviate doesn't completely remove memories. It seems to just bury them. A skilled wizard can cause a person to recall Obliviated memories (but not always without damage to that person). So perhaps you can't completely remove a memory (because if using a Pensieve does completely remove a memory and Obliviate doesn't, then why would Auroras and such use Oblivate to modify memories instead of just using a Pensieve technique to completely remove it)? Perhaps when pulling out a memory to place in a Pensieve, you're splitting the memory (if you can split a soul, why not a memory). Some of the memory still remains, but in a lesser portion, so it is not as readily accessed (which would also make it more difficult for other wizards to view during Legilimens, especially more amateur Legilimens).

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

Probably we are putting way more thought into it than JKR ever did :) She can't do maths, so I suppose we shouldn't assume she's got all the logic worked out of the magic bits either.

[sevensickles.livejournal.com]

That's why she has us.

[weaverandom.livejournal.com]

I agree, it's kind of bothersome. On the other hand, Snape took memories out of his head so Harry wouldn't see them, during the Occlumency sessions.

Maybe you can either remove memories entirely or make a copy to give to someone else. Or, yeah, your theory. Wait, I think I misunderstood.

Yeah, that makes sense. *iz ded*

[heidi8.livejournal.com]

Right, he took them out because he didn't go back in and watch them right after, and thus he didn't make a copy to keep in his head. Your explanation is exactly it - you can remove them entirely if you don't go back in and watch them, or you can go back and watch them and then you have a 2nd generation copy to either keep or recopy for someone else. Whew!

[empressov.livejournal.com]

This has always bothered me too---how, if Snape no longer had those memories at the time, did he know what precisely it was Harry had seen enough so to be irrate and say the things he said to Harry regarding the penseive scene? Same thing with Dumbledore's memories he left in the penseive when he went down to check on the mysterious appering and disappearing Barty Crouch--was he doing all this without his memories of those past events??

[troubleinchina.livejournal.com]

Not quite sure what to say about the DD one (I haven't much thought about it), but with Snape, he could have remembered taking out his worst memories so that Potter wouldn't see them, without really remembering what they were.

Sorta like how angry I'd be if someone read the diary I kept when I was younger, even though I can't remember much of what I wrote in there. (I think there was angst... there was probably angst.)

[cleverthylacine]

Okay, whew. Because I've had characters who were spies remove memories and hide the Pensieve so that if captured, they couldn't be tortured to reveal information, because they wouldn't know it.

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

I think thinking to hard about the nature of the pensieve hurts. Dumbledore's use has been fairly consistent. Pulling things out to make sure what you are thiking is atually what happened, which in onw why suggests you've removed the whole memory, and also suggests that perhaps you are right, and Slughorn modified the memory in the pensieve, as it clearly was unmodded in his own head.

It's Snape's use that makes it seem like you can remove the memory entierly, which suggests either there are two ways to use a pensieve, or Snape set the whole thing up because he new Harry would look at it and he'd have a good reason not to teach Harry Occulwhatever (of course that implies Snape might really be a Death Eater)

[cleverthylacine]

Well, Snape is a spy. And, being a spy, it would be convenient for him to be able to remove entire memories. Whatever he doesn't want Voldie and/or Dumbly to know, needs not to be in his head when he is working with them. They're Legilimentes.

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

So then the entire point of legilimes is defeated by someone with a pensieve. Interesting loophole.

[skjam.livejournal.com]

Or he made sure that Harry would see a slightly edited memory designed to cast James Potter in the worst light Snape could manage.

[moony]

You inspired a GIP, hee.

[tobymalfoy.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there are pensieve cinemas. And pensieve sharing networks. And "view only" pensieves. And what about PRM (Pensieve Rights Management)?

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

That is quite possibly the coolest thought ever.

I so want to visit a pensieve cinema now.

[ginsu.livejournal.com]

I so want to visit a pensieve cinema now.

Asimov wrote a short story on an extremely similar premise around fifty years ago called, I think, "Dreaming Is a Private Thing."

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

There is also a Diana Wynne Jones short story (called Carol Oneir's One Hundredth Dream if I recall correctly). It's not exactly a new concept.

But it is still an interesting one.

[celisnebula.livejournal.com]

In an interview JK gave, (I thought for sure it was the Muggle net one, but now I can’t find the link) she stated that a pensive holds the entire episode of a memory, not just a person’s recollection of it. That is how Harry is able to walk off, in OoTP, while in Snape’s worst memory.

As far as how it affects a person, I’ve always thought of it as sort of a file/fax system. It isn’t the actual memory from a person; it’s actually a facsimile of it, which is how Slughorn is able to edit his version of what transpired between him and Riddle. I think, a person can retain the memory, but remove it for viewing via the pensive. That means, if I can ever find the effing interview again, that a person can view a memory subjectively and see different things.

I’m still working on how removing a memory will stop a good occlumens, since I’m not at all convinced that using a pensive removes all traces of a memory. Even an Oblivate, which is suppose to addle the wits and memories of people isn’t 100% effective, so I doubt a pensive would be either… for how else would a person know if a memory contained in a pensive was relevant or not.