An overnight of commentary

[heidi]

First, a quick summary of last night - we went to the Kerry event at the Miami Arena - it featured a miniconcert by John Mellencamp & Babyface, and since we went with a friend who's done a lot of fundraising for the campaign, we got to watch it in the VIP section with Miami's next mayor, Jimmy Morales, a few current & former congressmen, and our friend Richard Steinberg, who's a city commissioner. The food was amazing - they had this custard-and-merangue cakey thing that was just the most light and decadent thing I'd ever tasted. Yum.

Now, on to the politics. I've never watched a debate with a crowd before, although I did watch the 1996 one in an online chatroom and being surrounded by partisan Democrats made for a fun event. The whoops and gasps and claps echoed through the arena, which, btw, was full on the lower level and the floor (although luckily the floor wasn't so congested that one couldn't walk).

Yes, of course, I think Kerry won. I think he didn't hammer Bush hard enough on certain things, but Bush just looked frozen. While I was concerned about the way Kerry started - I was paranoid he was going to run over-time because of his start with comments about Florida - seeing BUsh, then, freeze on his first line was just shocking. And yes, of course I was not surprised to see the "...a...." bit by Bush make its way onto the Daily Show (no, I didn't see the whole TDS yet - it'll be on repeat in 70 minutes, so I'll catch it then yay).


While the debate was going on, I kept an eye on my fist here (comments from both sides of the aisle were interesting!) and on The Daily Kos, Wonkette and Americablog and I'm now catching up on the fun over at AirAmericaRadio.

So in doing this, I managed to collect some quips as the night went on, and the spin and commentary began - these are my favorites:

"No president who has presided over Abu Ghraib should ever say he wants to put anyone on a leash." Conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan


Convictions don’t mean a thing if you’re just plain stupid, said Aaron McGruder, creator of Boondocks (It's not an exact quote, but that's the gist of it).


"Perhaps Bush believes his own spinners. He seemed surprised and a bit befuddled to be confronted not by the weak, waffling, French-looking wimp he attacks on the stump" - Paul Begala, former Clinton advisor, in his blog

"You kicked ass!" Crowd, to Kerry, at Miami Arena

"John Kerry put the bricks to Bush and the last four years of his administration clearly, concisely, eloquently and with devastating effect. Bush reacted like a man who has never, ever had anyone tell him anything other than 'Good job, sir.' Truthout.org

"I think John Kerry looked more Presidential." Joe Scarborough, former Republican congressman & MSNBC host

And, to borrow a term from just_kellie, this is the wutever moment, for me, in the whole thing: ""Well, I think -- listen, I fully agree that one should shift tactics, and we will, in Iraq." That's from George Bush, the flop-flopper.

Now, this last quote is a bit weird. I wish Kerry had called him on it, but given the setup of the event, he didn't have a simple opportunity - but it's one I wish he'd seized on, because this comment has been seriously overlooked in the coverage of the event. When he said it, I looked up, expecting an assault - and I certainly expected some commentary about it overnight. But I haven't seen anything, and I haven't even seen much coverage of it outside some blogosphere commentary. I did a news.google.com search on it two minutes ago, and I only found six articles with the quote, "I fully agree that one should shift tactics". So, wutever. . This was one especially interesting comment on it, again from William Rivers Pitt (author of 'War on Iraq: What Team Bush Doesn't Want You to Know' and 'The Greatest Sedition is Silence) at truthout.org:

So, OK, let me get this straight: We have to stay the course and not send mixed messages, and you've been blowing voluminous amounts of sunshine up the collective American backside for weeks about how boffo the Iraq situation is, but after an hour of taking rhetorical body blows from your opponent, you suddenly claim we are going to change tactics? It seemed for all the world that John Kerry, his opponent, convinced Bush that things in Iraq are as bad as people have been saying for weeks and months now.

One last thing - you can see a very blury photo I took of Kerry at the rally last night. He was just moving too fast, but one of the people I was with took some good photos on her digital - it'll just take a bit longer to get those online.

Comments

[acusa-dora.livejournal.com]

I think you're right, Kerry should have said something about that remark by Bush. Kerry, however, was playing by the rules and not interrupting Lehrer and not asking to make a rebuttal after each response by Bush. He's just too well-mannered sometimes.

[rookie131.livejournal.com]

I was in a group of 100 people that were participating in a PBS/Wall Street Journal forum for the debate. We all had signaling devices and were asked to respond to how well we thought each candidate did after each question. It was about 1/3 each Kerry, Bush, and undecided.

There were a few times that even the Bush people were laughing at Bush's lack of ability to speak. That deer-in-the-headlights look that he had and when he said that he knew Bin-Laden attacked on 9/11 got the biggest response.

The big news is that at the end, everyone was asked to vote on who they believe won the debate it was strongly Kerry. The best news is that among the undecided voters, Kerry won by a HUGE margin.

[hedwig-snowy.livejournal.com]

"this comment has been seriously overlooked in the coverage of the event"

That's politics. Those who support Bush see his flip-flops as leadership and they see Kerry's position (which hasn't changed at all) on Iraq as flip-flopping because Rush/O'Reilly/Hannity told them it was. His supporters seem unwilling to understanding that. It's just a black and white world I guess...

The one thought that I haven't heard come up is that Bush's strongest point was seen to be The War on Terror. If he can make more believe that Iraq is crucial to the war on terror, he'll win. If Kerry can persuade enough people that the war in Iraq is not related and a diversion from the war on terror, he'll win. However, this WAS Bush's time to shine. The next two debates will be more on domestic and social issues where Bush is extremely weak. Sports terminology: He choked down the stretch, let his opponent back into the match, and is on the brink of losing this thing. I don't think Kerry took the race last night (we'll see all the gritting smiles of the Bush people out spinning this until people in the Heartland actually believe Bush smoked him - it's the Madison Avenue approach to Presidential politics - 'we may not have the best ideas, but we'll make them believe we do'), but I think Kerry made it a race again.

[sugarjet03.livejournal.com]

I agree with you completely. My suitemate and I were talking about how Bush can't justify what he considers to be his strongest area. Kerry's ability to persuade on that point will be the biggest detemining factor of the election.

I can't wait for the next debates (especially Tuesday's). Kerry definitely made it a race again, and if he performs at the same level or better in the coming weeks than he did last night, he'll win. I'm sure of it :-)

[hedwig-snowy.livejournal.com]

"I think he's trouble...la la la..." :-)

As long as Kerry confines himself (and it should be easier because of time constraints) to simple (I know but that seems to work best with the electorate) and short answers and not give drawn out answers he should do well. Think Cheney will be head hunting on Tuesday?? :-) He's got a real challenge. People already think he's an ogre and now he has to show that someone in the White House knows what is going on and has a plan. Won't fit into the GOP plan to 'nice' him up before the election. Love all the ideas that they've come up with in the last month. Where were they for the last 45 months???

[hedwig-snowy.livejournal.com]

Online polls:

Who won the debate?

Fox:
Kerry 37%
Bush 41%

MSNBC:
Kerry 62%
Bush 38%

CNN:
Kerry 72%
Bush 21%

It seems the people who watch FNC needed to listen to Hannity after the debate before they could decide what they thought... LOL

[hedwig-snowy.livejournal.com]

Loved this:

President: "You can not change positions in the war on terror if you expect to win"

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" (President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01)

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him." (President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02)

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."([President Bush, 9/25/02)

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." (President Bush, 9/17/03)

[selinakyle47.livejournal.com]

Ah, the benefits of being in a swing state. :)

Heck, we can't even do much for our nominee (Obama) because Keyes keeps finding new ways to lower his polling.

[sff-corgi.livejournal.com]

Waitaminnit... blast, this is what I get for not looking at the final figures. Jimmy Morales, the ONLY candidate I'm aware of who bought advertising time on local Air America... he DID win?!? Last numbers I looked at had him in the #2 position with most of the polls counted!

Overnight commen-scary

[didi75.livejournal.com]

Hey! Lucky you for being there. I got to watch it on TV with the rest of America, although I was in my office for the first half hour or so where I could hear crowds of Bush supporters gathered to watch the debate cheering next door. It didn't seem like a good sign to me, but luckily, in my humble opinion, Bush's stride didn't last long.

Thanks for your insights. I might use some of those quotes with my class today, since we're talking about media and the presidency.

:D

PS: Trying to become more active in LJ and HP fandom communities, so I hope you don't mind if I befriend you.

[virginia-bell.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I like the Andrew Sullivan quote. :-)

The debate was good. It definitely put Kerry back in contention again - he completely outspoke Bush. He just seemed the more polished and refined speaker and, er, was generally more presidential. Oh, I can't wait for the other debates. *waggles eyebrows*

Signing off, V.M. Bell

[msbhaven.livejournal.com]

be sure you're high when you do tune in.