everything but the girl

Right, which is why it made perfect sense, imo, to remove her. But you don't arrest grieving mothers.

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jennilee.livejournal.com

Oh, she was arrested? Sorry, I read your comment selectively, I guess! ^_^

Yeah, that probably wasn't the right thing to do then.

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amandageist.livejournal.com

Yeah, I didn't think it was because of the T-shirt. I thought that was a side mention. Because you do remove people from an event who are disrupting it, whatever they're wearing.

~A

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sistermagpie.livejournal.com

I think Heidi meant, "Yeah, remove them if they are yelling..." meaning that they were right to remove her for yelling, but that they should have made allowances for her state of mind given the loss of her son and not arrested her.

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nc-kat2002.livejournal.com

Oh, the delicious irony:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/17/bush.fri.ap/index.html

Apparently he doesn't listen to experts:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/17/us.iraq.intel/index.html

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And nobody highlights anymore that Fukayama is seriously conservative, do they?

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nekiko27.livejournal.com

I agree with you 100%. She should have been escorted out only. Not arrested. Why is it that politicians and campaigns only support the 1st amendment when it suits them, and completely ignore it when it is a henderance?

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She pressed on, refused to leave and eventually police removed her from the firehouse rally.

Well, she refused to leave. No matter what, if you do not follow a police officer's orders--whether it be to show your identification, stop your car, quit causing a disturbance*, or anything else--you will be arrested. Sadly or not, exceptions cannot be made.

* Freedom of speech does have its limits. The woman interfered with the First Lady's free speech, in my opinion. It's like that old Internet saying: "It's your right to tell me where to step off, but it's my right to tell you to shut the hell up."

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We'll it doesn't sound like she disobeyed the cops before she was hauled out. It sounds, from the article, that she stood her ground against others at the event, but that the police didn't come on the scene at that point at all.

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It seems from the news footage that she left the building peacefully, but was just explaining to reporters as to what she was asking Bush. After she told them, a arm tapped her on the shoulder and tried to pull her away. She shrugged it off and then we got a wider view of a police officer walking behind her, grabbing her left arm, and pulling it behind her to arrest her.

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Don't know if you saw the later reports but it seems she left peacefully, per maureen dowd's report in the times today, and was then arrested.

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True, it is possible that they might have been able to arrest her...we'll see when she sues. Apparently, she was yelling over the crowd to ask Bush first why her son died when so few of the Member of Congress and Bush's own daughters are not serving for America's security and safety. What they charged her with is inappropriate. She didn't technically 'trespass' since she had a ticket. So, the authorities removed her and arrested her incorrectly (maybe some non-violent civil rights law that requires to have a permit to ask Bush a question??? Being rude may be annoying (if she was to anyone's eyes other than a Bush supporter) and reason to be removed, but not arrested.) If you want to go by 'the letter of the law' without 'exceptions'. The First Lady who stands for the position she holds can expect greater respect from the public, but one who joins in campaigning is no longer subject to anymore civility than her husband. It's called equal right's for women. She wants in the game, she has to play by the rules...this is Hardball when you have a grieving mother ask why your husband killed her son. If you can't take it, stay at home.

My Grandfather, Uncle, and Cousin were police officers. I had always been proud of their service and of the profession. Then, I saw a news report of an event in Eureka, California. Several environmental protesters had chained themselves to a stump inside of a Government office in Humboldt County. Instead of handcuffing them, cutting the chains, and arresting them, the Sheriffs used liquid pepper to swab in the eyes of the protesters. WTH??? These people had placed themselves under arrest. The torture, and no on could deny it was torture, was done as an example. I will never look at a police authority in the same way. They are human. They make mistakes. They are sometimes evil.

So, there are instances when you CAN and SHOULD disobey a police officer (for your own safety comes to mind or if he tells you not to run into a burning building to save your children, etc...). I wouldn't suggest it under most circumstances as they have more training in a lot of areas regarding safety, etc... but nothing is absolute.

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Oh, and by the way, the Kerry supporters can be downright nasty too. What did a little girl ever do to them? (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040917/480/wvrs10109170018&e=11&ncid=1756) *feels kinda ill*

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It's quite sick how offensive and abusive her father is, isn't it?

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Anyone (and I mean anyone) should be allowed to go and here the Presidential candidates without fear of reprisal or attack. However, considering the climate of the campaign, one might question why this father would take his daughter in there and thumb his nose at the other's around him? He wasn't beaten. She wasn't hit. However, considering the 'no exceptions to the law' idea...maybe he should be arrested for child endangerment???

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The man is a dumbass. No doubt about it.

But that still doesn't give anyone the right to do something like that to the girl's sign. I wish protesters on both sides would stop being jerks--it really doesn't solve anything. It just makes the bad blood boil. It brings to mind the Young Republicans Convention and the violence that happened on both sides.

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So you didn't get the impression that he's lied about it all three times?

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"Ann Harmon, 75, of Zephyr Cove, came with a sign saying President Bush is wrong for the Army and veterans. Retired Navy Adm. Ben Lehman, her husband, made it for her."

Why do you think so many current and former military members and high ranking officers disagree with Bush's war? I thought everyone in the military was Republican... :-) Even so, they can't all be doing for partisan reasons but because they truly disagree with a novice's view of world affairs.

http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/09/16/80595.php?sp1=rgj&sp2=umbrella&sp3=umbrella&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=umbrella

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Of course there are people from all walks of life who are for and against the war--or rather, for and against Bush. The military included. For example: I'm a bisexual, pro-choice, athiest woman who is probably going to vote for Bush. I'm the exception to something like three statistics by saying that.

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I understand your diversity point. The comment was about the high number of military commanders who have reviewed the basis for war, the tactics of the war, and the execution of the war and have declared publicly that it was a poor decision. Everyone can have an opinion on the war, but my point was that a great many people who know warfare aren't arguing directly against war just this war and the way it is being run. It's doesn't seem like a political decision (in most cases), but an evaluation of the facts on the ground.

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Actually, no. People on both sides experience crap like this all the time.

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Except that each time (other than, arguably, the time that their building got shot at) there hasn't been a single witness who talked to the press, other than this guy himself. Seems too wiggy to me.

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Abusive? To whom?

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To his daughter, who else? Didn't you follow the link?

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