heidi | (no subject)

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What did we learn from Slug's memories? Not only that they can be changed, but also, that they can include perspective, and presumably, unspoke thoughts. So there may be memories in Snape's head of what he and Dumbledore had plotted regarding Draco and Snape killing Dumbledore and if there is ever going to be a way for Harry to see that as true it'll have to be via memory.

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Excellent point!! Thank you. I was just wondering why Harry didn't try to break into Snape's head before Snape... did what he did near the end. That might have helped. Maybe.

This is the thing. Talking to

sageofgodalming last night, he mentioned that we know how Lily and James died. Well, no, we don't. I'm reluctant to view those scenes in PS film as canon because we see them as part of Hagrid's account - therefore they are part of his image of what he was told - nobody witnessed it.

I think we have to bear in mind that the only accounts of events we can be sure of are those who witnessed things. A lot of Harry and Dumbledore's post Pensieve suppositions are suspect.

Doesn't Harry have dreams about his parents? Are those not based on memories?

I have to wonder if those dreams Harry has about his parents' murder aren't based on Voldemort's memories and their connection. Harry was 15 months old at the time after all. Even as a "repressed" memory, that's awfully young to be remembering things so clearly.

I remember things from when I was 10 months old. I know, because I can describe my grandparents' old living room with perfect clarity, including the angelfish in the fishtank--when I was 10 months old, the angelfish were taken out of the fishtank and it was turned into a terrarium. So it's possible. ;)

Wow! That's very impressive. Normally, long term memory doesn't really set in until about 2 years of age. I don't remember anything really before age 3 or so. (I don't think anyway) :)

I wondered about that too, actually. I think you're right in supposing that they might be Voldemort's memories. Even so, they'd still be true.

Yeah, I had already though that.

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Fresh off an OotP re-read, I thought he'd been borrowing Dumbledore's pensieve?

That's explicitly mentioned once or twice in HBP, actually.

If Snape is playing on the Order's side to defeat LV, he would have bottled his memories to avoid LV finding out. So that would mean there is a little vial somewhere with the conversation between Snape and AD that will show Snape's level of involvement. This is what we need to find. With Snape's skills at Occlumency, we will never get it from his mind but from his memories.

The memories should always be from the perspective of the person remembering the situation. The fact that the memories can be altered is scary. Can they be altered better than Slughorn's were? Can someone with enough skills photoshop the memories so we cannot tell the difference? This is a scary thought to me. What if some of the other memories we have already witnessed have been altered? How would we know?

So then people would say, "woah his thoughts are pastede on yey"?

Oooooooooooooooooooooo. Ooooooooooooooooooo. That smarts.

I was thinking about that, too. It seems likely that Dumbledore stored some memories in the pensieve before he and Harry left for the cave that night. It wouldn't surprise me if Harry stumbles upon them in book 7.

I agree. Harry can't go searching for the other Horcruxes completely blind (if he does) - Dumbledore must have left SOME type of clue, some type of backup in case he didn't have time to tell Harry everything.

We've always known that memories were perspective-driven; the fact that they can be changed is new.

In canon, yeah, but not to any guy who's talked with an ex-girlfriend about their relationship.

VERY good point. Does the alteration of memories take place after they are already outside the head? Slug's actions seem to suggest that. So a memory that Harry can watch being put in a Pensive is reliable?

I really like that memory is both terribly important and terribly untrustworthy. The fact that Slug changed his memories badly means that somebody else could do it well.

Do you think that at the end when Dumbledore was begging Snape, Snape got closer looked at him and then killed him---do you think Snape did leglimens to read Dumbledore's thoughts?

I do. I think they were "talking" back and forth.

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